heres a little of what she said Our - PDF document

1 here's a little of what she said. "Our
here's a little of what she said. "Our And, you know, we're always trying to imagine possible futures and make plans for those possible futures, which is exhausting in itself. And so then we came to the conclusion that it's just fine if we make decisions in the morning and change them in the afternoon, and I who was a fisherman, uh, he really in ... Was insistent that I study business because he said it was ... It's a business problem that people took ... Came on big ships and took just about every last fish out of the water. That's a- that's a business

2 logic, not a- not a econ ... Not an eco
logic, not a- not a econ ... Not an ecological logic. So he said, "You better understand how this business works 'cause it's gonna eat us alive." So I studied business and- and in my career, I went to ... I mean, I was responsible for mergers and acquisitions in the last years of my career and saw communities all over the world that were being hollowed out by, basically, business decisions that didn't favor communities. In fact, sometimes, were downright hostile to communities. So I think, then, the lens I sort of see the world is how do we live? How do

3 we humans live together? How do we live
we humans live together? How do we live together better? And what is the connection between our economic order and our social order? And so, for me, travel's been about that. It's been about how do we make sense of this? And how do we ... 'Cause we have to reconcile economic logic and ecological logic and social logic, and that's probably what- what I'm most interested in. Melissa Biggs Bradley Well, so, as a student of business and the economic equation, but someone who belongs in a community and an ecological one, have your travels helped you find wha

4 t you think some of the keys to solving
t you think some of the keys to solving that are? Zita Cobb Absolutely. I ... A- a- and you talked about a trip, um, which I think was 1988, '89. It was actually quite a long trip, it was almost a year up through the middle of the African continent and that was e- e- enormously mind-shifting for me, uh, especially being in Rwanda. So this is Rwanda before the genocide. Rwanda is a country that has no ocean and, you know, the- the communities there are- are- areare deep and, um, and longstanding. I mean, have suffered from political rearrangements that we

5 re not of their own, uh, choosing. But w
re not of their own, uh, choosing. But watching what meant something to someone in a Rwandan village and being able to see the direct relationship between what actually meant something to, say, my father on Fogo Island, which was understanding that, you know, for people, it's about dignity and- and dignity is tied to some sense of agency. make textiles and all of these things are expressions of place and culture that you can put into an inn. And so we think about the inn as a vessel to put what we know and as a platform to learn what other people know,

6 uh, so that we all know a little more as
uh, so that we all know a little more as a result of having come together. Melissa Biggs Bradley And how did the islanders greet the concept from, you know, the beginning, but then, also, in how it's evolved? Zita Cobb We- we have this expression in Newfoundland, which I think was first said by our ... One of our great writers, Michael Crummey, which is, uh, "We Newfoundlanders cheat disappointment by not expecting anything." So in- (laughs) in the beginning ... You know, 'cause it's ... You have to be a stubborn spirit to survive out of the North Atlant

7 ic, so that's ... We found that to be co
ic, so that's ... We found that to be convenient. And so when we were starting to talk about have some old houses that are just not useful anymore. Um, and, you know, we don't have- we don't have proper childcare. I mean, we ... The same things that communities need as a sort of fundamental infrastructure to be able to live dignified lives, to be able to have a strong community economy, so those kinds of things. The fishery, um, i- is still ... It kkeeps adapting and evolving. Our relationship with the ocean, as humans, has been dreadful. Um, I think coa

8 stal communities like us are- are kind o
stal communities like us are- are kind of at the forefront of that. We've adapted our fisheries, uh, to be absolutely, uh ... Well, maybe more like our old-fashioned fisheries. Uh, but finding markets for ... You know, from Fogo Island all the way over the world, physical markets that we ship things to, uh, that's always a challenge. Melissa Biggs Bradley And you started this as part of the Shorefast Foundation. Can you talk about the thinking behind that, and why they're so integrated and why that's so important? Zita Cobb Mm-hmm (affirmative). So our f

9 ishery, uh, today is owned in a business
ishery, uh, today is owned in a business model called a co-operative, which basically means that the fisherman and the people who work at the fish plant own our fish business. And I think, especially for small communities, it really matters who owns what. It matters to how decisions are made, certainly. So we want to create a set of businesses that would be, in effect, owned by the community in a different shape model than a co-op, but a similar result. And so we started with setting up the foundation, which is a registered charity of Canada, and we took

10 the money from our careers, my- my brot
the money from our careers, my- my brothers and I, and put that into the charity and being of sound mind, we spent it all to build economic assets, like the inn. And many examples of, you know, let's say hospitality establishments that are generic copies of something from, I don't know where, some pre-packaged idea of- of hospitality, uh, that, you know, plops itself down on a beach somewhere and effectively acts like a vacuum cleaner to suck economic wealth out of that community and, you know, leave a few pennies behind for the local people. That isn'

11 t good enough. And I'll tell you, it's n
t good enough. And I'll tell you, it's not just not enough for local communities, it's not good enough for us as travelers because in many of those cases, I think we come away overstimulated and undernourished. Melissa Biggs Bradley I completely agree with you. And, again, it's as you said, it ... All of this is so interconnected and it's from the community that you discover the humanity of a place. And I think that what we're looking for, as travelers, I mean, that's what it is. So I wanna ask you, because I know you've incorporated art very much into t

12 he way you've thought about the experien
he way you've thought about the experience that people should have at Fogo Island, can you talk a little bit about the importance of art and artistic creation on Fogo? or, um, or right-wing. I don't- I don't know. I mean, (laughs) I think there's that. Uh, and certainly in this plague of populism that has been on the planet in the last five to 10 years, uh, you know, I know that there are political differences. But whencome to look and- and- and to be with people, whether they're in a remote community in Newfoundland or a remote community in Poland, uh,

13 rural people are no less complicated, uh
rural people are no less complicated, uh, no less pained, no lessno less joyful because ... They may express differently. Um, and another thing is it's sort of about culture. And when I moved from Fogo Island to Ottawa, where I am now, and I went to university in Ottawa, when I was leaving, um, you know, this man said to me, he said, "Oh, must be lots of culture up there because all the national museums are here and all of that." I said, "Well, I- I don't think there's any more culture, I think there are more representations of culture, which is in our g

14 reat museums and galleries. But culture
reat museums and galleries. But culture is that lived experience of a human in nature. That's how culture is evolved. And that's ... That richness is in all those small places across this country and across your country." Melissa Biggs Bradley Absolutely. And one of the things that travel to places like Fogo hopefully does is disrupt those misconceptions and correct them for a lot of people. So, Zita, you've done a lot of traveling and I know you've done quite an impressive amount of sailing and I was curious to know what inspired you to do that? Zita Co

15 bb I- I think the fact that I am descend
bb I- I think the fact that I am descended from people who came across the ocean from England and Ireland on d changed. And so from that journey and spending the time in Chesapeake, sailed to the Caribbean, which is quite a long journey, and then went up and down the whole, uh, coast of South America for a year and then crossed over to Europe. And, I mean, that ... It takes a long time to learn how to- (laughs) how to sail enough to take on an ocean crossing. And then spent, um, a year and a half or- or more, um, in the Mediterranean and all ... You kno

16 w, and in the Ionian up- up against the
w, and in the Ionian up- up against the coast of Turkey. Yeah. And what I ... And I think the thing about it is your ... The speed of life on a sailboat is the right scale, at least for me. Uh, and you arrive in places that are communities.And when you arrive on a sailboat in a place, it's a very different thing than- than arriving on a jet plane. Like, I think you're ready to be in a place if you arrive that way. Melissa Biggs Bradley Yeah. And were there favorite places over the course of that trip that you visited? that 80 percent of what we serve sho

17 uld be from the place and 20 percent can
uld be from the place and 20 percent can come from away because that enriches it. Wi ... So we have wine. Don't be alarmed. Melissa Biggs Bradley And if someone is coming for the first time, which season do you recommend? Or is that like picking your favorite child? Zita Cobb It is a bit like picking your favorite child. (laughs) But I would- I would come in September for the berries, late September. I- I just think you- you're still ... The wind is in the west then, um, and so it's just the most pleasant and then you catch an Air Canada flight from Hal

18 ifax to Gander and we, uh, can pick you
ifax to Gander and we, uh, can pick you up in Gander. It's an hour drive to the ferry, uh, and the ferry ride's about an hour and then you're 20 minutes, uh, from the inn. Uh, some people come to Gander and decide to charter a- a- a plane to come over or helicopter over and especially in iceberg season, that's an amazing thing to do because you're flying over icebergs. And by helicopter, I think it's about 25 minutes. Zita Cobb If you come to capital of Newfoundland, Saint John's, which is, in and of itself, a worthy ... Very worthy destination, it's ...