ourfriendstovalueuswithfairnessAndthatsrelevanttotragedywhichissooftencaughtupwiththestressesandstrainsoffamilyButofcourseAristotlethensaysalsothatyoufeelangeralsoonbehalfofothersIfyourepersuaded ID: 447047
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WhatdoesTragedydoforPeople? ourfriendstovalueuswithfairness.Andthat'srelevanttotragedywhichissooftencaughtupwiththestressesandstrainsoffamily.ButofcourseAristotlethensaysalsothatyoufeelangeralsoonbehalfofothers.Ifyou'repersuadedthatthey'vebeenunfairlyundervalued,undeservedlyundervalued.Andthissenseoffairnessofwhat'sdeservedisfascinatingtoseehowearlythatdevelopsinchildrenanditgoesverydeep.Andit'sperhapsespecially,Ithinkespeciallyapplicabletopity.Pity,youfeelpityforsufferingbutyoufeelaboveallyoufeelpitymostandmoststronglyforsufferingthatisundeserved,forsufferingthatisdisproportionatethat'sunfair.JoshuaBillingsAndyetthat'snotenoughtoarousetheemotionsoftragedybecausewhatyoufeelpityforisnotjustawfulthingshappeningonstageandtragedyismorethanadepictionofhavingterriblethingshappentopeople.Theremustbemorethandisasterintragedybutit'shardalsotoputyourngeronwhatitisthatdistinguishesacharacterinatragedyfromsomeonewho'sjustunluckybuttrulythereissomething.OliverTaplinYesIsupposeit'stodowithonemightcallnarrativecontext.Imeantheassessmentthatleadstothefeelingismadeinterestingandismadethoughtprovokingbytheethicalcontextbythemoralsbythereligionbythepolitics,thepsychologicalsetting.TheseareallbuiltupintheplayatleastasIseeitinagoodplay,awholecontextandconceptualcontextisbuiltupandwithinthattheemotionsareplayed.JoshuaBillingsAndyou–howdoyouthinkthatrelatestotragediesofeverydaylife.OliverTaplinTragediesofeverydaylifearenotgoingtohavethesamekindofpoliticalcontextasatragedysetinthepastoratragedysetamonggreatheroes.They'renotgoingtohavethesamereligiouscontextindifferentreligioussettings.ButIthinkonestillgetsthiscomplexityofthehumansituationwithinsothatyougetboththethoughtandtheemotionsimultaneouslymeshing.JoshuaBillingsAndalsointhenalanalysisyougetapleasurefromtragedyandthat'ssomethingthatyoudon'tgetfromwatchinghorriblethingshappen.OliverTaplinIquiteoftengetasked“Wellwhat'sthedifferencebetweenwatchingatragedyinwhichyouseeGloucester'seyesputoutorTitusAndronicusoryouseeOedipus'eyesputout.What'sthedifferenceinwatchingthatkindofahorribleatrocityandgoingtoseeahorrormovieorgoingtotheamphitheatreandwatchingRomanGladiatorschoppingeachotherup.AndIthinkonehastosaywellactuallyahorrorshowcouldbetragicifithasacomplicatedandthoughtprovokingenoughcontext.Thehorrorisnotinitselfantitragicatall.JoshuaBillingsAndtragediescansometimesshowrealgrotesqueandhorrifyingactionsonstageifyouthinkoftheBacchae.OliveTaplinYes,yes.ButIthink[[onethen0:05:54]]alsowantstosaytheatrocityisnotforatrocitiessakeit'ssome–partofsomethinglarger.AndIwouldwanttosaythatthecontextcreatedbythenarrativeisessentialtothewholebusiness.Iftheissuesandquestionsraisedaren'tthoughtprovokingthenit'snottragedyit'ssomethingelse.Andthey'renotgoingtobethoughtprovoking,they'renotgoingtohavetragicdepthwithouttheemotionsaswell.Peoplesometimessay“Wellistragedymerelyentertainment.”AndIsay“WellyesIdon'tthinkIagreewiththemmerelybuttragedyisentertainment.It'snotsomehowaboveentertainment,itsnotsomehowtranscendingorsuperiortoentertainment.”Audiencesandreadersgotoitforasyou2http://rss.oucs.ox.ac.uk/humdiv/tragedy-audio/rss20.xml OliverTaplinandJoshuaBillings saidacertainkindofpleasure.There'sevenacompulsion.IalwaysrememberKeats'odeonsittingdowntoreadKingLearagain.Hesays“Foronceagain,foronceagaintheercedisputebetwixtournationandinpassionclaymustIburnthrough.”Andthis`mustIburnthrough'it'sthecompulsionhehasto,hecan'tkeepawayfromit.He'skindofaddictedtoitandhemustburnthroughit.Sothereisakindofpleasureinthedistress.JoshuaBillingsTherecertainlyisbutit'shardthentoquitedenewherethatpleasurecomesfromandoneofthewaysit'sbeendenedandawordthatyouhereagainandagainandagaininwhichultimatelygoesbacktoAristotlepoeticsistheworld`catharsis'somekindofpurgation.Andit's–butit'shardtosaywhatispurge.Whatweloseattheendofatragedyorhowitis,isitanemotionalresponse,acognitiveresponseandthenhowcouldthat,thatlossbesomekindofpleasure.OliverTaplinYes,yes.Imeanit'sonethingeverybodyseemstoagreeaboutthattragedyissomethingtodowithcatharsis.YouknowIwenttothistragedyIhadareallygoodcatharsis.ButIdon'treallylikeit.I'mnotsureitistherightconceptatall.It'stoopurgative.AsyousayImeanpeopleargueendlesslyoverexactlywhatAristotlemeantbyitbutwhat'sagreedisit'sgettingridofsomethingbad.It'sapurgation,it'sapurication,it'sacleansing.AndI'mnotsurethatdoesreallyajusticetotheexperienceoftragedy.IthinkmedicalmetaphorsareprettyunavoidablebutI'dprefermetaphorsoftakinginratherthangettingrid,ofingestingoftakingonboard.SometimesIthinkit'smorelikehomeopathy,youknowthewayyoutakeadoseofthepoisoninordertocurethepoison.Ithinkbetterthanthat,vaccinationorinoculation.Nowthey'reprocessedfromtheactualvirusorwhateversomethingthatisputintothesysteminordertostrengthenthesystemagainthefulldose,againsttheunbearableandpossiblefatalillness.AndasIseeittragedyperhaps–oratleastI'dliketoexploretheideathattragedystrengthensitsviewersforlifeoutsidethetheatre.It'snotgoingtowardoffsufferingnoneofusareimmunetounpredictablesuffering.Itmightgivetheillusion,itmightgiveusthefeelingthatsomehowhelpingustowardoffthediseasebutitcan'tdothatbutitcanincreaseourunderstanding,itcanincreaseourinsight,itcaninformourlifeoutsidethetheatre.Andifthat'sright,iftragedy'sakindofinoculationwhichenablesyoutocopebetterwithlifethenit'snotsomethingthatyouleavebehindlikeacatharsis.It'snotsomethingthatgoesdownthesewerit'ssomethingthatyoutakewithyououtofthetheatre.JoshuaBillingsSoit'sthewayyoufeelafteragoodworkout–tragedy?OliverTaplinIwouldn'tknowaboutthat.JoshuaBillingsIt'saworkoutofemotionsandfeelingsofthewaysthatweunderstandourplaceintheworldtragedy.OliverTaplinYesandthat'swhyIdon'treallythinkthatapuricationofthekindofgettingridofisquiteright.FeelingandthinkingthroughthisincrediblyintenseexperienceinthetheatrethatIthinkitwasakindofcrucibleperhapsthat'sbecausetheGreektheatreistheshapeofakindofahalfofacrucible.Youknowyou'resubjectedtothesehugeheatswhichwouldbeunbearableinrealitybutbygettingthiskindofcontrolleddosewearethenbetterableto–you'restrengthenedfortheunderstandingoflife.http://rss.oucs.ox.ac.uk/humdiv/tragedy-audio/rss20.xml3 WhatdoesTragedydoforPeople? JoshuaBillingAndthecontrolofitIthinkisalsocrucialandit'soneofthethingsthatAristotleunderstandsparticularlywellisthatintragedywe'reinanartisticallyshapedworldsothethingsthatmight-ifweweretowitnesstheminreallife-betooterribletoderiveanybenetfrominatheatrewherethey'recontrolled,wherethey'remetedoutwithcareandwithintelligenceintheirexecution.OliverTaplinAndwithtechniqueandmasteryaswell.JoshuaBillingAndwithbeautythatinthatkindofcontrolleddose,thatvicariouslivingthroughdisasterthatthedisasteratsecondremovedmaybe,thatmakesusmoreabletocopewiththerealdisasters. c 2010UniversityofOxford,OliverTaplinandJoshuaBillingsThistranscriptisreleasedundertheCreativeCommonsAttribution-Non-Commercial-ShareAlike2.0UK:England&WalesLicence.Itcanbereusedandredistributedgloballyprovidedthatitisusedinanon-commercialwayandtheworkisattributedtothelicensors.Ifapersoncreatesanewworkbasedonthetranscript,thenewworkmustbedistributedunderthesamelicence.Beforereusing,adaptingorredistributing,pleasereadandcomplywiththefulllicenceavailableathttp://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/2.0/uk/4http://rss.oucs.ox.ac.uk/humdiv/tragedy-audio/rss20.xml